Forum Friday: Child Discipline
I’m not going to start this post by asking, “We’re friends, right?” Because that has been established. You wouldn’t walk up to your best friend of twelve years and say “We’re friends, right?” Waste of breath.
You obviously like me enough to continue reading my mindless drivel. So I’d like to open up my Friday posts to conversation. I’m not talking AT you, I’m talking with you. I learn a lot from our little chats on Facebook. When I have a question or need advice, I turn to my Facebook page. I think I can learn just as much here. Maybe we all can.
I’m going to call it “Forum Friday.” (Not to be confused with Fore arm Friday which is just as cool, if not more so.) Please comment away and don’t be afraid to say what is really on your mind. Just keep it clean and courteous. No trolls, please. Trolls comments will be deleted.
Today’s Topic:
Child Discipline
I have three children. By FAR, the most disobedient one is Miss E. When I ask her to clean the room she just lays there. I mean really, she just can’t pull her weight around here. What’s that you say? She’s a baby? That’s no excuse!
Actually my real problem child is the Three Year Old. And as anyone who has had a three-year-old will testify, it’s a rough age. Some days he is really good, a real sweetheart. But somedays he is just horrid. The other day he had a nuclear meltdown and he cried and screamed in his room for a good half hour. What could have caused this boy to be in such torturous pain? I had the audacity to ask him to pick up his toys. How dare I!
He also participates in the tried and true misbehaviors: hitting his brother, sassing his parents, saying inexcusable things, etc. We’ve experimented with various punishments but I can’t help but feel there is a better solution to reach him. And I don’t know what it is. I started reading some parenting books but I just don’t have time to read them. So I need some suggestions.
What do you do when your child hits someone else? What do you do when your child yells at you? How do you teach your child that doing a chore doesn’t need to be accompanied by a full fledged tantrum every. single. time. How can you communicate so that he/she will listen?
Discuss! And be specific–I’m not looking for vague ‘child needs boundaries’ comments. Let’s get some really good suggestions going.
I wait suggestions with baited breath. As usual, we are pretty much in the same place—although our 3 is four.
I’m going to start a red light/green light system. My daughter’s teacher uses it at school and my daughter’s always SO excited to come home and tell me that she stayed on green all day. Of course, this means I have to find a good way to punish her when she hits the red light stage that doesn’t ALSO punish me! That’s been my problem. The thing that she actually cares about losing is time outside with friends. But I need the break from her as well! It’s a tough cycle. I hope you guys can find what works for you!
When my kids whine about cleaning up their toys or putting away their clothes, we just say, “Well, if you don’t want to clean it up, let’s just throw them away. Then you won’t have to clean them up anymore.” Usually that kick starts them into picking up. On the rare occasion (can once a week be considered rare?) it doesn’t work, we have to follow through on the threat by coming in with a garbage bag. Once they see one or two items actually being thrown away, they hop to it. We are careful to start with toys we wish they didn’t have anyway (Happy meal items, broken things, old stuffed animals) or clothes that we know are on their way out anyway due to being too small or stained. Hope that helps. As for the sassing, I wish I had a good solution. Mine is to just walk away saying “I don’t listen to people who talk to me like that.” but that only has a 50% success rate.
I can totally relate to what you’re saying. My oldest is 3.5 years old and does many of those exact same things. One thing that has helped us is a behavior chart. They started it at her daycare and we implement the same system at home. There are 4 colors in the system, blue star (best), green (good), yellow (minor defiance, bad choice) and red (very bad). We have 4 colored cards with her name on them and her current color is the one displayed in the front (the others are hidden behind the front card). The blue card has a big star on it since it’s special and the other 3 cards are a simple rectangle. The visual reminder is very important.
She starts out on green at the beginning of the day. If she does something really good, like being extra kind or helpful or picking up toys without me asking, then she goes on blue (assuming she was already on green). Or if she misbehaves or doesn’t listen to what I ask her to do then she goes down a color (blue to green, green to yellow, yellow to red). I try to save red for really unacceptable behavior like hitting and total meltdowns.
She can move up and down the color chart throughout the day depending on how she behaves. We try to only move up or down by one color at a time unless it’s something really bad, at which point she goes directly to red. The next morning she starts at green again.
I don’t think you can really stop the tantrums, etc. I feel like it’s just a growing phase. To make sure it’s something they grow OUT of and not IN to, though, always always always be consistent. If you say they can’t do something or else…(whatever the consequence is) and they still do it, the parent HAS to follow through. Every single time. Even when it seems so much easier to give in.
I agree that reward charts are really helpful. Also, making clean up a game (timing them on how fast they can do it is one example). These are the tough years, but putting the hard work in now will make the other years much easier!
I truly feel for you because I too have a 3 year old and am experiencing a lot of the same things. I am 7 months pregnant so I feel that maybe my patience is weaker than normal and the past few months I’ve really been struggling. Each day I was feeling broke. Each day my buttons were pushed and the longer this has gone on the more quickly I feel like I snap. There were(and still are) days I feel like I just can’t go on like this!
Upon much reflection I realized that I needed to start fixing stuff about myself as well as finding an appropriate way to discipline. I remembered that while we were potty training we used a button system and this ultimately seemed to affect her most. After this method we finally got her potty trained. So I decided to try and bring back this system for disciplining.
Now I should preface this by saying we have tried many methods, including the “beloved” time out and none of them worked. Time out was actually by far the worst method we tried and I shudder to think back on those days when we were trying this method. It took everything in me not to think my child was possessed.
So fast forward to now. We have been doing the buttons in a jar for a good couple months now. I cannot say whether or not this behavior has truly improved but I know when I use this method I feel better about myself. She gets to put buttons in her jar for good behavior. When there’s bad behavior she gets 3 strikes. Getting to strike three means she loses a button. She really hates losing buttons! Once the jar is full she gets to go to Chuck E Cheese. Our jar is almost full for the first time and I’m hoping the true impact of making good decisions will hit her and we’ll see improved behavior since she’ll see that she gets to do something really fun when she does good things.
As for fixing myself. A couple weeks back I saw something about each night writing 5 things you did good that day and 5 things you’d like to focus on the next day. Then take those things to the Lord in prayer. Thank him for the good accomplished and ask him for help for the things that need improvement. Almost every night since I have been doing this I write, “be more patient.” I’m not perfect but this has made a huge difference. If I do lose my temper I realize right away and try to fix it and make sure I don’t do it again. I find that I remember more frequently that I need to be patient and that I am more often able to think that before I act out of frustration. There were days I really felt like I hated myself for how angry my 3 year old made me all the time. I think realizing that I was part of the problem has made a huge difference for me. I still have really rough days but in the end I feel better about myself and how I’m doing as a mom.
Hope this helps a little 🙂
Sami, I just wanted to thank you for your response. Everything you’ve been feeling is what I am going through right now, and it’s so hard. I want to try a new method of discipline besides “time out”, which works in the moment, but it doesn’t stop him from doing it again later. I have a 2 1/2 year old, and a 1 1/2 year old… so the older picks on the younger a lot. It tests my patience all the time, and there are good days and bad days for me and the kids. Anyway, again, I just wanted to thank you for sharing what you’ve tried and learned.
I really stick with the tried and true time out system. It does work pretty well in this house. And I started it with counting to 3…if I get to 3…it’s a timeout. And there are things as automatic time outs: yelling at me, hitting, and throwing. Usually I can get through the day by only ever having to count to 2. There are definitely days that are harder than others…and I really try my hardest to keep MY voice under control. I can tell you this….if it gets to a point where I holler…these kids get bloody scared and practically put themselves in a time out. And there is a no excuse/no tolerance policy too. Tantrums get you nowhere…unless your goal is to get to bed faster. I truly have let my 3.5 year old melt down on the floor in target…then when he stopped i pulled him close and said he has an automatic time out when we get home unless he stops the nonsense. I mean I don’t have these all written down…they just know because I stick to it 100%. I kinda just adopted this policy and have never stopped. I think that’s key too…just do one thing for a REALLY long time and it will stick. They will know you mean business with a look…
I certainly don’t know everything about discipline and I’m sure I do alot of things wrong…but I never hurt my children and I just stick to it…
Every kid is just so different! With my delightful 3YO, his tantrums are so unusual. He is easily embarrassed, so he doesn’t throw loud public ones. He saves those for home. When he does that, he has to be alone in his room, not allowed to interact with his family until he is ready to listen, obey and be kind.
Time-out is used for small tantrums and misbehaviors; we even put toys on time-out that are being fought over or misused (I forget about them for a while, which encourages the kids not to fight and lose them – they might not see them for a couple of months, lol).
But the best formula I have found for my children is that they purposefully break rules and get into things when they want attention from me or my husband. If I’ve ignored them too long doing whatever I’m doing, toddler gets into drawers and cupboards, preschooler hits and yells and ignores me. So if I’m paying enough attention, I’ll put everything away and just watch them or play with them or read to them – whatever they prefer – until they are done with me. Also — I watch attentively for the GOOD things they are doing. When 3YO shares, I praise him for showing love to his brother. When he obeys readily, I praise him for listening and doing what I’ve asked. I also emphasize the good in hard work. When the 3YO does something like cleans up his toys, I let him know that he did hard work and hard work is wonderful and hard work is the BEST and he is a HARD WORKER. Making hard work a source of pride has really been good. When we have a successful trip to the store, I tell him everything that he did right and tell him I know that was hard work and that I’m so proud of my hard worker.
I’m a firm believer in time outs. Even when they scream, cry, and try to get out of your designated time out spot. It’s a complete battle at first….like the first couple weeks. But consistency is key. Time outs last for however old the child is. I even put my kids in time out in public…like the grocery store. I don’t care if they scream and cry for a few minutes at the store…if it means cooperation the rest of the time. I have gotten the looks from people like….”what is that woman doing to her child!”…kind you know. If my child is yelling at me, I tell him/or her in a firm voice, and bend down to their level. “You can not talk to me like that, if you do it again you will go in time out.” Then I follow through with whatever I’m saying. It takes a lot of work, and a lot of patience. This method has worked for me for all 3 of my kids. Follow through and consistency is major! And of course reward him for good behavior, praise ,and maybe do a chart for every time he’s good ….he gets a star… and eventually a special prize. Now I just have to threaten a time out and my kids shape up. I rarely have to actually put then in time out. I hope this helps. 3 is a hard age, and sometimes it just takes a little growing up before they are really better. I look at my 7 year old and think I can’t believe is was so crazy, because now he is an angel. My husband and I talk about this all the time, and we both believe he is the way he is now, is hugely because of our consistency with him. One last thing I promise. Being understanding of the child’s age. They are going to act and do certain things that just go with that age, and be forgiving, and patient. Ok I’m done lol.
Also: Never, ever give a threat that you cannot or won’t follow through with. If you make the threat, you have to follow through. Every time. It shows that you mean what you say; you have respect for your own rules and you expect the same from them.
Completely relate! We tried all sorts of things with our daughter when she was younger including the naughty step (which completely didn’t work for her). I agree with S about being consistent, I would also say don’t sweat the little stuff, work on the bigger things. What did work for our daughter when she was around 3/4 was we had 2 clear tubes and some red stones/pebbles and some blue ones (marbes would work). Throughout the day she would get red stones in one tube for any bad behaviour, and blue ones in the other for good behaviour (like doing what she was asked, clearing things away etc) and we left them in a place she could see all day. At the end of the day, if the level of blue stones was higher than red ones, she would get a reward (like a bit of extra TV or an extra story) and we would explain why she got the reward and praise her. If the red level was higher than the blue we would explain why she wouldn’t be getting a reward that day. It worked for her because it was very visual and simple. Now that she’s older (6) she has a chart with chores and good behaviour we would like her to do during the day. She get’s ticks or crosses for each and if she gets more than 9 ticks for the day she earns a star. She has a target of stars to collect and a reward that she chooses (like her best friend coming over to make pizza and watch a movie) that she will recieve once she has enough stars. Her school also operates a similar thing to the traffic light system already mentioned: they have a pocket at school with their names on. Bad behaviour gets them a yellow card and a warning, too many yellow cards result in a red card. Red cards can also be earned for one instance of very bad bahaviour. Red cards mean a trip to the headmistresses office and a note sent home. At home, as for anything violent, we used to remove her from the situation, sit her down and tell her why it is not acceptable and try and help her see how the other person might feel.Then she would be left to sit alone and think about it for a short time. We never have any problems with violence with her now she’s older. We’re waiting for that to start with our son (he’s 17 months). I think it’s difficult finding what works best for your child – they’re all so different, and alot of it is a phase. Our son actually enjoys helping tidy up if he sees his sister do it, because he thinks it is a game he’s playing with her. Good luck(sorry for such a long comment!)
My oldest is 2 and a half and we have been using time outs as discipline. She has never been a very disobedient girl so I don’t know if it is successful because of her personality or because time-outs really work. When she does something ‘inapporpriate’ (hitting, talking back, not listening) I have her sit on a chair for 2 minutes (keep putting him back if he gets down) and then she is expected to apologize for her inapproriate behaviour to whomever it applies. I always end with a hug and tell her that I didn’t like her behaviour but I love her. It is the Super Nanny approach so look that up for the details as she explains it very well. It may be hard at first but stick with it (consistently – don’t even let one time slip)… I gave my daughter a time out in the child care center at my gym this morning… I was a little embaressed to do it in public but I knew if I let it go that she would think she was off the hook whenever we went out.
Tantrums: I ignore them when we’re at home. Unless she screams, then I send her to her room (now she goes to her room whenever she cries because she enjoys screaming). If I’m just DONE, then I tell her to go somewhere else with her tantrum. When she’s done, I ask if she wants to talk about it. Sometimes she does, sometimes she doesn’t. If we’re out when she has a tantrum, I simply tell her to stop or we’re going home. Or to stop or she can’t watch a movie after lunch (her favorite part of the day).
Hitting: Mostly I just admonish her and tell her not to do it and to apologize. About half the time it results in her running to her room to throw a tantrum. If a toy was involved, I take it away. Though I do store any toy I take away in sight, so when they ask for it any time that day, I remind them of why they can’t play with it. That way they remember it more than if the toy is hidden.
Sassing: I just tell her not to talk to me like that very firmly, right away. If she kept doing it, I don’t know what I’d do. She’s pretty reasonable (thankfully).
Picking up toys: it’s generally something that I have her do before something she likes. Mostly at night after dinner & bathtime, before she can play the computer or video game for ~20 minutes before bedtime. Or before lunch or before we go somewhere or before she can play outside or before she can pull out a game. And she is often told, “You took too long to do [whatever task she dawdled at], so there’s no time to [whatever activity she was looking forward to].”
The thing that drives me in most of my decision making with parenting is natural consequences and emphasizing that it is HER choices that caused whatever is happening, good or bad. And I try really hard not to make threats/promises that I can’t/won’t follow through on. I’m also trying to move away from time outs (not really a natural consequence) and from counting to three (why should she get three extra seconds to decide to listen to me?). The first is easier. The second… not so much.
Although, when I got fed up with her talking like her younger brother (who doesn’t talk, so it was all grunts and such), I told her that only big girls get Rapunzel cakes for their birthdays, so she needed to talk like a big girl or she wouldn’t get the Rapunzel cake for her birthday. It took a few weeks of reminding her (it was about 6 months until her birthday, she REALLY wanted that cake) and she stopped talking that way.
I’m not too worried about my talkative, reasonable, logical 4-yr-old (yet, ask again when she’s a teen). It’s the non-verbal, stubborn 20-month-old that I’m worried about.
Back when I had time (and oh boy did I waste some time when I didn’t know better!) I read a book called “The Happiest Toddler on the Block” by Dr. Harvey Karp. It was easy to read, funny, and filled with real-life scenarios. I was at my wits end with my then-2 1/2, now 3 1/2 year old and it worked for us. The premise is that toddlers can’t reason – so the book teaches you how to talk to him/her in short sentences. He calls it “toddler-ese”. If your toddler is having a meltdown, you actually bring your voice up in pitch to match theirs, then say “you’re mad! you’re mad! Jake is mad at mommy!” It gets their attention because you acknowledge what they are feeling, they quiet down, and you continue with the shortened reasoning: “but you have to pick up your toys.” Now – I make it sound easy and want to clarify that anything takes some time. However, it made life easier with him and is now working on his 20-month old brother as well. I know you don’t want to read a book – but if you can, just skim it next time you are at the bookstore and see what you think.
Good luck – one we will look back on this and miss it, right?
Ohhh! Good topic! And who doesn’t have an opinion on it.
My main thought is – Are his physical needs being met?
Sounds basic but we over look it ALL THE TIME! Most kids are pretty good by nature. My first (of 3) came out a screaming red head and was/is an incredibly difficult and opinionated little whipper snapper. Love her, but she’s hard. She her worst though when she is tired, hungry, or I haven’t spent enough time with her.
I’m not kidding. Hungry and fits go together. If she is being difficult, whiny, or having a hard time controlling her emotions I just give the kid a snack (and a good one, not like a fruit snack or something like that… a banana and PB…). Sometimes it’s easier to IGNORE the behavior and figure out the WHY.
Sleep is a huge thing that most mom’s just don’t push enough. Have you read “Happy Child Healthy Sleep Habits” Best book ever. He should be sleeping from 7:30 to 7:30 and still having a nap. If he isn’t that might be the root of some of the problems.
Not spending time reading with, pretending with or playing OUTSIDE also makes my kids rotten. Grumpiness gets disciplined with a trip WITH me to the sandbox. You can’t just send them out, they need you. If it’s too cold, we go and sit in the sun-warmed car and I let the kids pretend to drive.
I’m a big believer in prevention and heading things off. If they are starting to act grumpy or uncooperative, change what YOU are doing. Now kids can’t get away with treason and I’ll let everyone else tell you how to disciplined, but it’s way easy to not even get to that point in the first place.
You should highlight some of the thoughts you liked most. I’d love to hear what other people thought but probably won’t be able to look through all of the comments on my own! Happy parenting!
This is such a tough one. My daughter is turning three next week and time out used to work wonders and I honestly haven’t had to put her in time out for a while. She has moved to the throw yourself to the floor and wailing and crying like someone broke her little heart a million times.
Hitting: My daughter used to do this to play with her dad and it started getting to the point that she was “playing” this way with everyone. I talked to other mothers who helped me soo much. I would smack her hand at first and after talking to another mother I changed how I handled the situation. You don’t want to smack their hand or bum if they hit because you are “hitting” them and it just shows it is okay. I would cross my daughters arms and tell her VERY sternly that we don’t hit. She of course would throw a fit with me holding her arms in a hug but I kept the hugged until she was done throwing a fit.
Sometimes when my daughter is acting up I can ask her if she is sad or if she just wants me to play with her some more. That is usually the case. Kids just want to play and have fun and want their best friend to be there playing with them. I only have one child so it is easier to give my undivided attention to her. I think even if you have more then one child just devote an hour or so to each child with just them so that they feel special.
It seemed that other children helped raise my children. What I mean is that if we were out and we seen a child throwing a fit, I would tell my children to looked at the people around the child and the looks they were giving would be the looks they would get if they behaved like that. That seemed to work when were out. If they threw a tantrum I would let them, and I would not pay any attention to them. After a while they would stop and I would tell them how disappointed I was because my little boy (or girl) wouldn’t do something like that because they were good children. They didn’t have very many of them. I believe that you have to be on your toes at all times. Parenting is a 24 hour a day, seven days a week job. You must always let them know how much you love them and when they misbehave that you are not mad at them or dislike them but you are disappointed. Always let them know you love them, you just don’t love their bad behavior. I hope this helps, it did with both of my children. My son is the oldest by 13 months apart. To this day they are still very close.
Oh my goodness! I need the help just as much as anyone. I know many of you will cringe here, but we have tried so many strategies with sassy talk and talking back that we have resorted to putting vinegar or cayenne pepper on their tongues.
lexmallabooks.com
Mom of four and former Special Ed teacher. I say the most important part of arguing with your child is A.) To not really do it. You are the parent and you don’t have to prove your point “I am sorry you feel that way. I know it isn’t fun, but it has to get done.” B.) Take the emotion out of the argument. When your child yells or sasses you, you stay calm and you say, we don’t talk like that in our family or it is alright to be mad but is in not alright to talk that way or act that way or if you are going to have a tantrum you may do it in your room. Or you say I will not be by you while you are acting this way and you remove yourself from the equation. Calmly. If you need to or if you can you can carry them to their room to tantrum. I had to do this to my son twice and the next time an incident happened he was able to gather himself and clam down before he had to go to his room. But the most important and the most difficult is to keep your voice calm even though you may also want to scream and yell.
The next thing to do: Praise your child up and down when he exhibits a desired behavior. My Teacher Trainer called it really going for the “Aloha”. Kids like praise and they like to be recognized for doing the right things. Further more this reinforces appropriate behavior.Ex: I really like how nicely you spoke to your brother. You touched your sister so nicely, what a sweet boy you are. Good way to ask for a cookie. I love it when you say please. Good listening to mommy. What a big boy. You get the idea.
Next, sometimes kids get overwhelmed by big jobs. Like pick up all your toys. SO instead say. I need you to pick up 10 toys, lets count together. Give High fives, whatever, okay now I need you to pick up five toys and I will help you with the rest. Count together, give high fives. When I want my six year old to clean her room I still have to compartmentalize her jobs. Ex: First put all your shoes in the closet. When she is done I give her the next job, now collect all your dirty clothes that are on the floor and put them in your laundry basket. When she finishes I tell her, now, collect all your books and put them on the library shelf- you get the idea.
Hitting is one thing that I can’t stand from my children. Of course you don’t hit back, but I would say you put them in their room for how ever minutes they are old. Three year olds get three minutes. You sit them on their bed and you say there is no hitting in our family, calmly of course. Tell them they have to sit for three minutes and you will be back to get him. If he tries to escape then you must hold the door shut. When the three minutes is up you go in to the room hug your child and tell them I put you in this room because you hit. We do not hit in our family. It is not okay. I want you to know that I love you and I won’t let anyone hit you either.
I hope these ideas help. I think the most important thing to remember is to stay calm and to be consistent. I rarely have discipline problems now (not that they don’t happen- and I still have a baby that I have to teach all these things to someday and less she decides to be an angel and to never act up)) but your kids will learn, they are young and it is a big world to navigate!
Oh, also! I learned this from a friend this summer and I have used it ever since. It covers offenses both big and small. The offending child must hug the sibling he offended and say, “I’m sorry, I love you and I’ll try to be a better brother.” I love this phrase because it assigns responsibility for the offense and to be better in the future.
I love all your advice. Love it! Thank you!
I just read all of these comments. I have a 2.5+ year old and I have no answers. I feel like he is often out of control. One thing is that I can get him to help with things around the house, and I’ve started giving him tons of praise for that. He likes to help and likes to be told he did a great job.
I have found that WHEN HE IS BORED, he tends to behave badly. This is often, since we don’t watch TV often and b/c I also have a 7 month old who requires a lot of attention (as you all know and understand…) So I try to come up with ideas for him to do. He loves to help if I’m unloading the dishwasher, laundry, etc and he can also be trusted to entertain the baby sometimes. So I don’t know if that’s a good thing, but I try to avoid bad behavior by keeping him occupied. Today I let him play with colored water. He liked that.
my child is 19months – and I am LOST! she listens to daddy really well most times but with me.. nothing. I think my voice is juts background dribble for her. I’ve just started doing timeouts for complete meltdowns and tell her when she is all done crying /ready to smile she can come out – works pretty good. but somedays she’ll stay in there for a good 10minutes (it’s kind of funny because if she is still upset she will push at me saying ‘no mom-mom” so I know she needs a few more minutes). Her will is strong! and I feel like she wouldn’t understand sticker charts yet…
Thank you for doing this! How helpful! And I love how many people commented.